Eric Raymond "No iPod Support"...No future for Desktop Linux...

"Linux, Raymond is sure, also needs, one way or the other, to support
proprietary equipment like iPods. "When a twenty-something year old comes
up to me and I talk to him about Linux, the first thing he wants to know
is: 'Can I run my iPod on it?'""

"For example, Raymond believes that within
the next two years, the Linux desktop must grab a large share of the
desktop market or it will never happen. His logic is that historically
users shift operating systems when the hardware platform underneath them
fundamentally changes."

It sure seems like Eric Raymond has figured it out.

Too bad the COLA gang is still talking more editors, compilers and code
fragments ala' freshmeat.net.

Darth Chaos...

The iPod works with Amarok, Rhythmbox, and Lsongs.

flatfish+++...

Creative Zen Vision M doesn't seem to work.

Can you update iPod firmware with Linux?
Can you update Zen Vision M firmware with Linux?

Do you get all the same features, and easy to use with Linux?

JEDIDIAH...

What features did you haven in mind exactly?

Do you even know what "features" these devices have that
they might be lacking under Linux?

I'm asking.....

The Ghost In The Machine...

Are these proprietary? Firmware in particular could be a problem,
absent more data (specifications).

JEDIDIAH...

Firmware? There are devices that need firmware loaded onto
them just to function properly. Loading firmware onto a device in
Linux is likely a very mundane sort of thing.

Can't imagine it would be more difficult than sorenson codec
support in mplayer.

Of course Microsoft will have no such limitations, since Apple
is more than happy to sign an NDA with them, presumably.

flatfish+++...

It doesn't matter.

Like Eric says " Will it work my my iPod" and I'm certain he is using iPod
as a generic term for mp3 players in general.

Jim...

well, if he's going generic...

My ipods that work with Linux:

XMicro Video (tho the "video" bit doesn't work (even in XP) it still comes
up as an MSD, which is good enough to drop mp3 onto);
Motorola C975 cellphone with 256MB MicroSD SMC;
Sony NetMD MZ-N707 Type R (OK, a bit of a cheat, but the USB functionality
is there);
Durabrand RB-200 (made for WalMart/ASDA), both internal memory and external
via SD SMC;
Aiptek DV3300 DV camera/video/mp3/DNT;
Mustek DV4000 DV camera/video/mp3/DNT.

Test system: SuSE 9.2 Professional retail, KDE desktop config, default
package selection and fully updated on a Dell PIIIm/700 L400 subnote with
512MB RAM & 1xUSB1.1 port.

Michelle Ronn...

Fixing this problem won't give Linux any more market headway. The
fastest growing group of computer users is Grandma down in PHX. When
they make it so that she can buy a cheap computer (this they have
done), and buy easy to use applications that she can install and

JEDIDIAH...

Granny isn't going to install ANYTHING.

[deletia]

The notion that she will is simply ASSININE.

Conversely, this means that any solution needs to be completely
turnkey.

maintain at the local Walmart (this, they have yet to do)... only then
will Linux make some headway to the desktop.

The average user does not care about hardware. The average user could
care less about the OS. They just want a simple computer that will do
what they need it to do.

There are a lot more of these "average users" then there are folks like us.

yttrx...

Ummm...you may want to do a little research before putting your foot
in your mouth, again.

My ipod works just fine on linux, and furthermore works fine on netbsd
and freebsd. gtkpod has existed for some time, and is stable and quite
usable.

flatfish+++...

Tell it to Eric Raymond.

I'm simply the messenger.

The Ghost In The Machine...

It may not matter that much. I suspect Vista will be
announced with such a splash it will make Win95 marketing
efforts look like a tacked-up card on an old-style cork
bulletin board.

It'll be interesting to see what happens between iPod
and Zune. Presumably Microsoft will be able to synch
songs from a WinPC to Zune using Bluetooth or some such.
Autodetect Zune in vicinity, download new songs to it,
pocket and go!

Convenient ... and probably rather dangerous.

For its part Linux may not have too many problems
emulating that behavior, as long as the Zune (and, for
that matter, iPod) specifications for such actions are
readily available.

As for editors and compilers: Linux has some major problems
in the compiler area. True gcc is the standard -- and
that's one of the problems; icc is a better compiler, courtesy
of Intel, at least on x86 boxes.

DRM is also going to be a major headache. Linux culture
does not really like DRM. (It doesn't explicitly forbid
it; it just doesn't like it.) At some point DRM will have
to be integrated at a very deep level in all machines --
probably as a required standard in all microprocessors,
similar to the more or less failed SkipJack -- and even
then someone will probably come up with an open source
microprocessor with no DRM.

In fact, someone already has:

This space is probably going to get downright weird.

Lars.Traeger...

Too bad that most Free Software users are only interested in "as in
beer". They will gladly continue to buy cheap PCs over anything truely

Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?=...

Too bad that Lars knows next to nothing about "Free Software users"

open but expensive.

Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?=...

They will buy gladly PCs which will run rings around the "truely
open but expensive" toys he uses
And they are a *lot* more "truely open" to boot

JEDIDIAH...

...and what would that be exactly?

Tim Smith...

Try clicking the links.

The Ghost In The Machine...

These links won't do much, but the Wiki does point to some other stuff
which appears to have salable hardware, although not for the desktop.

The Amida in particular looks like it could be an indispensable tool,
for many on the go. In a few years or decades the traditional
box on the desktop might be downright weird, as computers are
built into *everything*: display systems, keyboards, phones, lights,
even coffee cups and shoes.

In fact, I think it's happening already.